David Walters(Marxist Internet Archive): An American Provocateur Proponent of the NWO and One World Government
“The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.”
(As reported in the popular Greek magazine, Oikonomikos Tachydromos on 14 Aug. l997, Henry Kissinger, while addressing a group of Washington, D.C. businessmen in Sept.1974)
"They condemn us that we want to abolish borders and dissolve the State. But the State we build today no longer exists as they dissolved it. Who therefore is a patriot? They or us? Capital doesn't have a country and it runs to find profit in whatever country it is able to. That is why it isn't concerned for the existence of borders and the state. But all we own are our hats and the small kerb in front of us, unlike capital that runs wherever it finds profit."
Aris Velouhiotis- Partisan Leader of Greece 1944
http://www.marxists.org/
A section of the article that Walters refused to upload on MIA and only after consistent complaints do they appear.
Show me who your friends are….
On who runs MIA and their piece in the New York Times (House Organ of US Imperialism) plus the dubious role of a Brian Bagsen (an avowed anti-bolshevik in charge of the Russian section!!)
“Historical Bias: I believe Marxism was a complete failure as a form of government. Hence, it follows that I believe that Marxism has been a failure when in the form of a political party. Yet, despite these failures, it has an ever present connection to radical mass movements, which is an interesting paradox. I openly loathe Bolshevism and vanguardism, which I firmly believe leads to horribly unethical government where the ends justify the means. Needless to say, these beliefs often put me at odds with many in this organization, and eventually led to my depature.”
Brian Bagsens Biography
I wish we had MORE of him…
David Walters
http://tinyurl.com/q6bzuol
At the end of the 90’s David Walters flew to Greece like others before him, to use their skills in setting up some new venture that which later became the Marxist Internet Archive. I was informed of him and asked to try and make contact. At the time of the NATO bombardment of Serbia egged on by British imperialism with mass protests in Greece (where nooses were set up for Tony Blair and the weekly satirical magazines ‘Pontiki’ had him in a gay pose with Clinton) this must have affected the American for over the next decade and a half he has engaged in an internet stalking relationship on behalf of American imperialism against myself. I came across him over the debates regarding Seattle where another American group (Spartacist League) condemned the protests and called them reactionary and nationalist as workers complained against Chinese imports and abstained from them.
Visit to the USA
Walters was involved in disrupting a visit to a now disbanded self-proclaimed Marxist Workers Group in Detroit over the fact that I reprinted what Engels wrote on homosexuality and the fact that the leader of this group said in late 1999 that there was no ‘immigration’ problem to Greece and there was no ‘open border policy of US-EU imperialism in place’. We arrived at Detroit international airport and waited and waited for them. They turned up to tell us that something had happened which they didn’t explain and after a day we left as we were provided with nowhere to sleep and left to fend for ourselves having to leave at 6am to get out of the city. On arriving at a McDonalds we were told to move away as we were the wrong colour and could end up dead before we could find a taxi.
9/11 Fake Terror and anti-Iranian venom
Over the course of a decade Walters has trumpeted vociferously the 9/11 put up job which launched the ‘war on terror’ and bankrupted the USA. He alleges that he has connections with a French group though no one ever has verified it and according to himself he is a loner. I would classify him as an American deadbeat who lives in a Potemkin village world of make believe. In the same period the same friend who helped set up the Marxist Internet Archive noticed that a whole host of anti-communist stuff was appearing and some of the editors on the threads were avowed and self-declared anti-Bolsheviks and this was noted in a circular sent out by me to many US organisations as they refused to upload translations done by myself either from English to Greek or from Greek to English from Greece’s revolutionary historical past. They kept on citing various problems when it came to Greek translations from computer malfunctions to html codes etc. They also refused to upload material on the Greek civil war written by Greeks so we were forced to produce a book on it...
At the same time he kept on stating our views are marginal in Greece (five or so ex-organisations that make up the collective Patriotic Left) that Greece is a sub-imperialist country and they can receive an unlimited number of illegal immigrants as the EU has deemed this necessary via the Dublin 2 agreement, that no one has published any study on Marxism and Immigration (D Dousias in 2009 who presided over the only scientific analysis of the Greek Roma and who has been included in my latest work on Immigration http://imfoccupationgreece.
Walters then goes on to berate a member of the Patriotic Left for being in Tehran when the main topic was 9/11 and how WW2 was used to justify the creation of the state of Israel. These views (bar the Anglo-American fake left) are widespread in France and Greece as an ex-central committee member of the French CP Garaudy wrote on the state of Israel a long time ago. Walters hides behind the collaborationist French govts past history to support left Zionism and label people ‘anti-semitic’ for they dare breach the topic of the US airbase in the Middle East. An old tired trick that no longer holds water but works well in US academia and the far left globalist circuits that label people either ‘conspiracy theorists’ ‘holocaust deniers’ ad nauseum. Having lost uncles in Hitler’s concentration camps it is a bit of a cheek to argue that I believe there were no concentration-extermination camps. Why don’t we just say what Walters really means. There was only one Holocaust, the jewish one and it trumps all others and anyone questioning the depth and severity of it must deny it existed for after all how can we collect money to prop up the Zionist entity if we haven’t got a story to sell?
Degeneration of the US ‘far left’...
In years of old before they became corrupted an American group wrote this
[O]n a sufficiently large scale, immigration flows could wipe out the national identity of recipient countries.... If, for example, therewere unlimited immigration into Northern Europe, the population influxfrom the Mediterranean basin would tend to dissolve the national identity of small countries like Holland and Belgium. More generally, unlimited immigration as a principle is incompatible with the right ofnational self-determination; to call for it is tantamount to advocating the abolition of national states under capitalism.”
Workers Vanguard's original article on the subject (January 18,
1974):
Now they send me articles castigating the ‘nationalism’ of the Greek labour movement in other words accept your lot don’t complain and don’t protest. Between an armed revolution and global revolution there are a multitude of ways the issue of illegal immigration could be wrested from the fake rightists.
Most of the American ‘far left’ groups degenerated in the 70’s into self appreciation societies which became infatuated with the individual self and adopted the policies of lifestyles ( paedophilia, gay, lesbian now trans) just like the Ottoman Empire did in 1864 before its ignominious collapse and it is an irony of history that then Anglo-French imperialism considered them ‘backward’ for legalizing homosexuality (before the Russian Revolution) and coined a phrase in French (shagging like a Greek!) and now British imperialism is on a mission via Camerons foreign office to ‘educate’ the backward members of the Commonwealth and actively promote homosexual lifestyles (majority of countries which have homosexuality banned on their statute books are from the ex-Commonwealth countries)
The arrival and perpetual legalization of immigrants in the USA (11million under Obama) became the second most adopted slogan from the ‘far left’ groups there. Anyone raising any objections was also labelled reactionary and backward as if the destruction of historic nations (which have a history far greater than the bastard offspring of British Imperialism) is a principle that anyone other than real fascists can espouse in this day and age whereby unelected central banksters and their political offshoots dictate who lives and who dies.
We had a decade of being told we live in Fortress Europe and then we realise this was just the propaganda trick used by the globalists for a ‘fortress’ which has the front gate open wide ain’t a fortress.
There were groups of ex-trotskyists (Vitsoris group) who during the course of the last direct imperialist occupation of Greece who claimed opposing the 3rd Reich was futile, Germany is unifying Europe, it is bringing the working class into closer unity forgetting that the abolition of nations is a decision nations should be allowed to take by themselves not imposed from above with the presence of army officers or from turning national tax offices into the vehicle of imposing bankster rules as they have done in Greece and have imposed in Cyprus (via the bailin).
Agios Panteleomonas 2008 Immigration Question goes National
When local residents started to complain and protest about the unchecked arrival and squatting of hundreds of illegal immigrants who used the square to live, sell drugs, go to the toilet harangue the local Greek girls and old women by relieving them of their gold jewellery (mostly a Christian cross) one should have said these Greeks are racist they aren’t open to the world despite since the 70’s having the 4th most tourists in the EU.
When predominantly women set up committees and egged on men to do something about the fact they couldn’t go about their daily business, men were forced into action. The corporate media that represents the interests of globalism started a vociferous campaign against the residents labelling them ‘racists. On the back of this campaign the ‘leftists’ who work in tandem with the corporate media started to march and march and march against the local residents. Riot police turned up and threw tear gas into the main church. The residents stood firm beyond all the odds. Walters labelled all these residents ...nazis.
Lets now look at Walters line on immigration, its due to the root causes of imperialisms decay, the collapse of societies due to war and population movements across borders. If I am not mistaken the war in Vietnam started in 1945 and lasted till 1975 a full thirty years. The civil war in Yugoslavia and the imperialist intervention lasted another decade in the 1990’s. The amount of Vietnamese or Serbs that arrived in Greece can be numbered in the palm of one hand. Now why is that? All immigration according to Walters is ‘progressive’ ‘anti-imperialist’ for we are dealing with ‘immigrant rights’ UN conventions and as Felicity Lawrence said ‘migration theory’. Iraqui and Afghani collaborators of Western imperialism never crossed the borders into Greece chased out by those resisting imperialism in their territories only victims of ...imperialism. Collaborators become an above class entity (migrants) and they gain supra-national rights. The labour movement of each country based within specific national borders have no rights to question anyone and anything. They have to be open in order to not be ‘xenophobic’.
So when we had underage girls being pimped by Nigerian drug dealers in central Athens 100m from Omonia square we have to put this down to ‘migration theory’ ie pimping has gone global and there is nothing to be done. Locals aren’t allowed to say anything as they weren’t allowed to say anything in the slums of South Africa when the same phenomena appeared. Long live the unity of international pimps and underage prostitution should be added as another one of Walters ‘transitional demands’ in the current era. When the Algerian resistance banned prostitution and alcohol and took out severe measures against those who flouted the rules, we should have argued they are oppressing the rights of ‘sex workers’ and they should be free to ply their trade with occupation troops, otherwise this shows the chauvinistic oppression by males of Algerian women?
When the corporate media journalists who are nothing more than hired whores of capitalism in decay arrive in any scene they dictate the terms of the news agenda not based on what happened and why but on what we need to say and gather facts accordingly. Paul Mason arrived in Patras interviewed a few people and declared there was a Golden Dawn riot against illegal immigrants from the offices of the BBC as always which has a monopoly of the truth (same BBC that announced half an hour before it collapsed the 3rd Tower during 9/11 and also the non-existent finding of weapons of mass destruction to justify the Iraqui invasion). Although given airtime and does circuits in Universities and book fairs as to how the working class has gone global to sell books for his much needed pension pot so he can retire in some idyllic setting.
The reality was a Greek woke up one night heard a whole bunch of noise, went out to tell some people to shut up, not knowing they were lumpen illegal hoodlums and they stabbed him to death. In the disused ex-fabric producing factory Piraiki Patraiki they went to hide. The next morning locals gathered to protest and find them. The police arrived on the scene to save them from a riot. The locals stole a road digger to attack one of the ex-factory walls. GD arrived on the scene in the form of party leaders and informed the road digger owner his road digger had been stolen trying to diffuse the situation. The police then used helicopters to ship out those inside the factory to the safety of Athens. So hundreds of residents involved in more than a few days battle with riot cops (many had to be shipped in from Athens) were labelled GD. Problem solved. Who is Paul Mason? Ex leftie leader of Workers Power. Totally impartial as always, being British helps when reporting on Greece...having a past as a colonial overlord. Mustn’t let tradition get in the way of a good revisionist story after all we have agendas to sell.
Walters then castigates another poster for uploading Marx’s comments on immigration rounding on him as if they were uploaded by me. This is the style of ‘debate’ hatchet job man who pretends he actually is listened to by anyone and rounds on them if they mention Marx on Immigration. Well here is a blogsite only with comments by Marx and Engels on Immigration. Read at your peril cos you wont find most on the MIA, they don’t do that sort of thing. They are respectable with Stalin and Rorty all over.
http://
Nuclear Power apologist...
After the ban by the now disbanded Permanent Revolution group Walters went round campaigning for nuclear power how progressive it is and how it will end ‘global warming’ in particular just as Fukushima occurred. Despite the facts against the topic eg Pripyat 25 years after Chernobyl is a city still evacuated of 50k citizens as the readings are 75k times higher than they were before the explosion. An American true to form everything that is rotten from the states he wants exported. He has found ‘safe’ nuclear power despite the fact that Pripyat is now burnt out for at least 600 years due to radioactivity, the same with Fukyshima and despite the protests in Japan that saw 200k citizens march outside the Presidential Palace, but hey lets ignore mass movements, we know better, nuclear power is safe...Walters said so and as an American one must take their hat off to him.
British ‘far left’ and Greece
Just like they did nothing for the struggle of independence for Kenya prior to that what is it they did regarding Britain’s involvement in fostering Greece’s civil war and supporting the collaborators of Hitler?
Answers on a postcard please. Prize a book of mine on the Greek civil war.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greek-
The British ‘far left’ has always been in the overwhelming majority pro-imperialist alongside their American counterparts. Their support is always based on the ‘ethnics’ behaving themselves and following what the centre decides.
WRP-Gerry Healy had an organisation in Greece which destroyed the first post-dictatorial printshop after expelling the majority of the organisation in a typical healyite frame up and shutting down all the bookshops. Throughout this period Bob Archer was with Gerry Healy and not only that, when their honcho in Athens (another self-styled fake jew Savvas Michael) was parading in Tehran and Libya singing the praises in order to get money from there we were supposed to keep quiet when allegations regarding rape and financial fraud were aired in public for the first time. I made a special journey to the UK to interview their Gestetner trade union rep they had called Richard Goldstein and translated the interview and with a series of reports, posters and adverts in Pontiki exposed the WRP and called for a Commission of Inquiry (as to whether they had handed over pictures of Iraqui communists to Saddam and taken money from the oil-igarchs) but the successors to Healy weren’t interested only in trying to maintain Healyism without Healy. In the 90’s Archers alliances with Slaughter were based on an anti-Serb venom paralleled only by Blair (who obviously had guns). There is a saying in Greek ‘show me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are’ fits accordingly with Bob Archer and David Walters. A marriage made in heaven.
The Militant had followers in PASOK who were in PASOK. One wing ‘left’ in 1991 another about three years ago. What discerned them was their slavish acceptance of PASOK as being ‘social democratic’ instead of pure capitalist (liberal centre party of Greek capitalism) and their careerist appetites. When things started to rock they jumped ship in order to find new homes (latest declaring themselves the ‘communist wing in Syriza and supporting the Euro, EZ and EU!!) Those that joined PASOK or were allied to it did it for material gain, there wasn’t much politics and there hasn’t been much since. When hundreds of thousands hit the squares swearing at Parliament and the PASOK and ND MP’s how did they cdes of Militant in Greece feel? Their whole lifetime in politics was geared around being in PASOK. Insofar as they marched in the 70’s chanting ‘US bases Out’ ‘National Independence and Territorial Integrity’’ EC and NATO are the Same’ Greece Belongs to the Greeks’ they weren’t racist or nationalist, but John Reinman http://oaklandsocialist.com/ if he was a member then forgets the ‘sins’ of his youth and in old age seeks revenge to those who remind him of his past. Now if they weren’t the slogans being chanted confirm that with those who were there...
SWP Greece has been one of the most vociferous in gaining EU subsidies to promote ‘diversity and multiculturalism’ through their open border Soros networks (Athens Indymedia run on govt platforms from the Athens Polytechnic), language schools for foreigners, social forums etc and its no coincidence that when they were exposed way back in 2004 I was banned from even broaching the subject in their media. Half their organisation after the SWP UK touting it as being the biggest in Greece joined Sinaspismos to get an electoral subsidy and now in the leader of Davanelos they parade as being the ‘left opposition’ inside Syriza when they have been known to support every anti-Greek act by foreign US subsidised govts eg Skopje when they marched there holding up the flags of a foreign territory which has claims on Greece, over the issue of Macedonia. When hundreds of thousands of Greeks marched in the 90’s against the USA’s attempts at divide and rule they resurrected the hundreds of thousands who marched during the 3rd Reich (when it handed over a section of northern Greece to Bulgaria without fear for their lives and many were killed.)
They consistently campaigned against the citizens groups that sprung up in central Athens turning up with the riot cops to tear gas them and hurl abuse from 2008 onwards. GD turned up for the same reasons to pay lip service to the struggle of the residents in order to gather votes. Now because the SWP are the marketing agents for GD (they both call each other Bolsheviks and nazi respectively when they are nothing of the sort just two sides of the same globalist coin) they managed to help gain them votes from 0.29% to 10% in three years. A group which is so ridiculous allegedly against the Troika but for the EU and against Merkel but for her as they condemn the protests against her. Now the corporate global media jumped on the bandwagon of GD these votes hover around 15-20%. The system is creating its next fallback option in the form of Syriza or GD as players in any coalition that might be formed.
Left unchecked illegal immigration would be a ticking time bomb. Campaigning around the fake slogan of ‘migrant rights’ and calling for ‘unity’ among all and sundry may apply to imperialist centres which had colonies all over the world but does not apply to banana republics for the scale and volume of immigration surpasses the domestic labour force (Eleftherotypia-newspaper spoke in 2004 about the presence of 2.5m so has the Greek TUC research department INE-GSEE spoken about the presence of 40% foreign born workers in relation to the indigenous labour force). That is over a decade ago.
Campaigned pro-actively for a vote for PASOK in 1991...
Permanent Revolution ex-Workers Power (another now disbanded group and the irony here is Walters always intervenes on the scene whilst groups are on the verge of disbanding) had a blog site. I intervened initially on topics related to Greece as I did with a series of letters in Weekly Worker regarding Greece. PR forecasted perpetual boom (instead of ‘catastrophist theory’... as they labelled it) just as the EZ was going into depression and they asked for a meeting and a series of eyewitness reports from Greece. In the middle of one of them when we had a two day bombardment to destroy the occupation of the squares Walters appeared with his poison pen letters (not on the content of the material which was being uploaded by the way) to talk about ....gays and immigration. PR then blocked the second eye-witness report. PR who were an offshoot of Workers Power have known that I disagree with the Americanisation of politics in fields of sexual relations (its not the duty of labour parties to actively promote any sexual lifestyles) from the 80’s. But as British they are in bed with the Yanks and kowtow to their every whim. In that they follow the political class that rules Britain to the letter. They are American poodles.
‘Weekly Worker’ or otherwise known as Globalist Weekly
When a book came out ‘How the IMF Broke Greece’ edited by me with contributions from others and was reviewed by an ex-British miner Dave Douglass, Walters appeared on the scene (without having read it to attack it!) and to say ‘illegal immigration’ is good for Greece as it has been good for... America. The irony now of the situation is that illegal immigration left unchecked has led to riots in many parts of Greece. We are now being told to condemn Greeks for rioting when Greeks are being killed by the local corporate media, the foreign corporate media (Paul Mason-Newsnight Channel 4 John Snow) in other words to accept their lot as no one can go against the 4th Reich (much like the ex-cdes of the Vitsoris group) for the arrival of millions in the territory of Greece is a natural phenomena (‘migration theory,’ ‘human rights ‘ in the past it was just known as Lebensraum). Funny how Cuba closes its borders to ‘gusanos’ but Greece cant. So why does Greece have a navy, an army and a rail service? To ship them in by the kilo dump them without any means of support in a concrete mega city and then expect them to live like hippies (ie to molest no one, to commit no crimes to live idyllically by eating air and handing out flowers to each passer by in particular old ladies not living like animals in squares and using them as latrines in 40c heat) as if they are in Matala in Crete in the 70’s.
Or let’s put it another way. 15 million or so tourists visit Greece a year. Why not turn the tourist industry into just a reception centre of illegal immigration so no UN conventions on ‘human rights’ are breached. Ensure each new arrival is housed and fed to the standard of tourists in hotels and turn Greeks into waiters for this service so they can get some hotel work back as they have been made redundant from that as well. After all an ‘open border’ policy espoused by Greeks who were trained under Lyndon Larouche and happen to be the family that had the central bankster bros under Simitis who brought us into the Euro (and now pretend they are the rrrevolutionaries of Antarsya) are the direct connection between the British ‘far left’ and Greece.
But the fake left wont touch the topic as they don’t want to go against the status quo. They are globalisations last vital bulwark. Hence when they look at Syriza they see ‘success’ and want to repeat it abroad as if the conditions are the same everywhere and the success of Syriza whatever that means in practice, is anything to look up to other than with they eyes of parliamentary cretins, just as the Greek parliament has ceased to exist.
There is no nationalism as yet of Greek labour. It has been decimated, de-industrialised and replaced by globalized labour which has no interest for Greece or the Greek nation. They are all there for their own individual ends not the collective ends of society as they can just up sticks and leave at any moment in time and aren’t interested in society or social issues as issues. Hence one notices the total absence of immigrants from the globalist left and if they are there they are there for show like a flower on vase by the window.
But that isn’t the issue with Walters. Walters does not seek debate just the closure of it by creating labels, latest one being I am David Irving when he openly supports the ethnic cleansing of Greeks. Well what label aspires to him? The only good American is a dead one? After all he is on record to not support the military conflicts arrayed against the USA from Afghanistan to Iraq... wants the mess that is the USA exported everywhere and assumes we have to fall for it.
The other irony is that all the parties of the official fake Left KKE-Syriza ask for illegals to leave Greece ie by overturning the Dublin 2 agreement and being given travel papers to go to northern Europe to alleviate Greece’s problems. In other words they want Greece to be an open border arrival point, then processing and then movement up the chain. You don’t hear Walters criticise them for being anti-immigration now do you? That is what Syriza and the KKE openly argue. Lets look at Lenin:
"What does 'Down with frontiers' mean? It is the beginning of anarchy.... Only when the socialist revolution has become a reality, and not a method, will the slogan 'Down with frontiers' be a correct slogan."
Lenin April 1917 on the National Question
http://
I remain committed to the ideals of Greece belongs to the Greeks, US Bases Out, Greece must Exit the EU etc even if Syrizas new found friends in the bankruptcy of the Anglo-American ‘far left’ have adopted the Brookings Institute, the London School of Economics and the world banks as their mantra and the evidence of it is that all talk of ‘socialism’ is in reality just talk about lifestyles (race or sex never about class). Hence there never was any ‘debate’ on the WIN site, just a concerted and united effort by Americans and their British toadies to state openly Greece should cease to exist. One does not debate neo-fascists, one exposes them openly for what they are, pure globalists whether of the ‘open’ or closed variety.
On neo-fascism...
I’ll leave the last words to Lafazanis the leader of the Left Faction in Syriza with 30% of the votes at their founding conference:
“you want a procedure with Presidential decrees in order to avoid the control of Parliament – a control which is to be avoided only by non-democratic regimes. The two bourgeois parties have engineered a disgusting and to be condemned coup, blatantly, by using Parliament as a decoration”
2nd August 2013
Which leaves one with the obvious question if the Greek Parliament no longer votes on anything why does the Left still participate in it?
Answers again on a postcard please.
Much like the other question. Walters alleges he has the same line as me on the nation state and he was criticised by Gerry (hands off the US ambassador in Libya!) Downing that he is a rabid nationalist and that a national question arises if the volume of immigration is such to question the identity of nations, but that this law is overturned if you are an imperialist country or sub-imperialist overturning Trotskys observations in 1940 that a national question may also emerge in imperialist countries if overrun by Hitler, he argues for the closure of borders in non-imperialist countries. So how come that doesn’t make him a xenophobe, nationalist as Gerry alleges? So South Africa must have arrived at an imperialist level of development as well?
EU-USA=One World Govt
“The totalitarian state, subjecting all aspects of economic, political, and cultural life to finance capital, is the instrument for creating a supernationalist state, an imperialist empire, the rule over continents, the rule over the whole world.”
Nationalism and Economic Life
-Leon Trotsky 1933
The centralising tendencies of global imperialism implies they no longer seek to have nation states with any role whatsoever. They are creating an imperialist unification based not on army invasions like Hitler (that happened with the defeat of Germany and Japan in WW2) but on NATO, WTO, central banks, IMF, common currencies leading to world currencies. By destroying nations or creating mini-USA’s everywhere imperialism wants to create the old ‘divide and rule’ philosophy to control and contain all labour movements like what the British Empire did in Africa when it shipped Indians over and blocked the Blacks from working on the railways so they could not disrupt the Empire.
Socialist Discussion Site…
I was on the site for one month prior to withdrawing. The eyewitness report from the ERT occupation affected the Syriza lackeys... on the site. Let’s have a look at some of their comments:
Greeks are ‘primitive xenophobes’ Dan
‘Apodidictic manner’ Bob Archer
After explaining to me that Greece benefitted from the EU and EZ and the EU I am told...despite contrary information provided from a KKE source:
‘I would be grateful if vngelis would take part in the discussion in a less strident manner.’
Dan
The sarcasm in vngelis' postings is unpleasant and uncomradely. S/He is constantly trying to associate those who disagree with him as fake lefts, supporters of quislings or appeasers of fascism. This is not an appropriate style for this discussion
Dan
Being labeled a terrorist here….
Both sought to "expose" the true character of the "neofascist" state by provoking it into battles with the revolutionary brigades; both resorted to acts of individual terror, assassination and bomb throwing in an attempt to short circuit the process of winning the majority of the class. These were the Italian Red Brigades and the German Red Army Fraction.
Dan
Sorry Comrade Gelis, I strongly disagree with your views. If Greece is swallowed up by workers from across the world I will not mourn but as joe hill put it: organize
Stu
From a primitive xenophobe to whether I am …Greek
I guess the question to Comrade Gelis and to all of us are you Greek (or wherever you are from) first or a communist revolutionary first? If the former than Comrade Gelis' comments fit and present a radical nationalist view. If the latter then we are internationalists and the borders drawn and maintained by the oppressors mean nothing to us.
Stu
In some ways, there is a similar issue here in California, and we see it very concretely here in Oakland, where I live. My own neighborhood, for instance, used to be 90% people born in this country; now it is a mixture of Asians, Latin Americans, one block which is primarily Iraqis, etc. (My own personal attitude is that this polyglot really makes things interesting.) Yes, there is competition for jobs. Also, I understand that some of the immigrants receive certain government services that native born people who are in equal need don't, and this does create some resentment. My attitude is that everybody should get these services.
If it is really true that Greece's economy is really, actually being strained by the numbers of immigrants, then I think the movement should demand that the EU help provide for them. But what I feel most strongly is this: How can any movement that is fighting for a better society take the attitude towards immigrants of "You can drown in the sea. You can go back home and be bombed to death. You can go back home and starve." No working class movement can take that attitude and move forward. It is inevitable that if it does, it will turn to nationalism and some sort of racism and/or sexism as well as homophobia, etc.
John Reinmann
My son has worked on building sites in Greece where the lingua franca of the site was English because of the range of nationalities working there. The description of the working conditions was like something from a century ago. He is also scathing of the commonplace racism he experienced there.
Felicity Dowling
Walters other American friend a lawyer who did a stint with Healys outfit (under Wohlforth) in the USA prior to the Greenstein mob that took over and now prints the Financial Times for the USA has ditched the Trade Unions and on the WSWS website goes round attacking the nationalism of everybody but not the American transnational corporations that rule the world… for which Walters has defended vociferously.
A CAPITALIST WORLD GOVERNMENT IS A UTOPIAN ILLUSION, BUT IF IT WERE IN THE OFFING, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE SOMETHING TO BE WISHED FOR THAN SOMETHING TO BE FEARED. YES, I VALUE THE ELIMINATION OF WAR MUCH MORE THAN THE PRESERVATION OF GREEK NATIONAL CULTURE. YOUR VALUES ARE FUNDAMENTALLY WARPED--IT GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN A MERE POLITICAL DIFFERENCE.
SRD
Conclusion
Even in the ex-stalinist states when the USSR was starting to collapse the old national antagonisms resurfaced. National culture, national traditions etc re-emerged. How could that be when it was already buried as we had the creation of ‘soviet man’?
To now have Americans and Brits arguing that the destruction of nation states (under whatever guise they come up with or whatever tinpot theory they concoct) is something progressive without the nation states volunteering to commit national hara-kiri or even allowed a vote on it indicates how fast they have degenerated into a new world order of globalism. Anyone voicing these views (erasure of nations) should be automatically excluded, but what we see is that like 60’s samizdat in the old USSR we now have a similar thing developing in the West where any views deemed ‘nationalist’ are banned from the ‘open’ ‘alternative’ ‘anti-capitalist’ ‘socialist’ media outlets which are the twin side of the corporate media.
PS
Under any rules of democracy (not of course Anglo-American) one would be allowed the right of reply prior to being ‘suspended’ or the same rules would apply to the person who made the allegations. But of course under globalist rules all norms of basic democracy no longer apply. This indicates the neo-fascist nature of ‘debates’. One has to first fit into a schema before being able to respond and once labeled for not answering in the pre-conceived schema one is labeled accordingly: ‘anti-semitic’ ‘racist’ ‘homophobic’ not necessarily in that order. But we don’t precisely live in a democracy any more but an Orwellian new world order…As I have also other things to do than waste my time answering American provocateurs I send my reply to the allegations but do not confirm I am willing to respond or have time to do so…
VN Gelis
August 2013
"Dear comrades, if we shall keep mum today, tomorrow the Jewish Marxists will ride on our backs... Vladimir Lenin"
“The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.”
(As reported in the popular Greek magazine, Oikonomikos Tachydromos on 14 Aug. l997, Henry Kissinger, while addressing a group of Washington, D.C. businessmen in Sept.1974)
"They condemn us that we want to abolish borders and dissolve the State. But the State we build today no longer exists as they dissolved it. Who therefore is a patriot? They or us? Capital doesn't have a country and it runs to find profit in whatever country it is able to. That is why it isn't concerned for the existence of borders and the state. But all we own are our hats and the small kerb in front of us, unlike capital that runs wherever it finds profit."
Aris Velouhiotis- Partisan Leader of Greece 1944
http://www.marxists.org/
A section of the article that Walters refused to upload on MIA and only after consistent complaints do they appear.
Show me who your friends are….
On who runs MIA and their piece in the New York Times (House Organ of US Imperialism) plus the dubious role of a Brian Bagsen (an avowed anti-bolshevik in charge of the Russian section!!)
“Historical Bias: I believe Marxism was a complete failure as a form of government. Hence, it follows that I believe that Marxism has been a failure when in the form of a political party. Yet, despite these failures, it has an ever present connection to radical mass movements, which is an interesting paradox. I openly loathe Bolshevism and vanguardism, which I firmly believe leads to horribly unethical government where the ends justify the means. Needless to say, these beliefs often put me at odds with many in this organization, and eventually led to my depature.”
Brian Bagsens Biography
I wish we had MORE of him…
David Walters
http://tinyurl.com/q6bzuol
At the end of the 90’s David Walters flew to Greece like others before him, to use their skills in setting up some new venture that which later became the Marxist Internet Archive. I was informed of him and asked to try and make contact. At the time of the NATO bombardment of Serbia egged on by British imperialism with mass protests in Greece (where nooses were set up for Tony Blair and the weekly satirical magazines ‘Pontiki’ had him in a gay pose with Clinton) this must have affected the American for over the next decade and a half he has engaged in an internet stalking relationship on behalf of American imperialism against myself. I came across him over the debates regarding Seattle where another American group (Spartacist League) condemned the protests and called them reactionary and nationalist as workers complained against Chinese imports and abstained from them.
Visit to the USA
Walters was involved in disrupting a visit to a now disbanded self-proclaimed Marxist Workers Group in Detroit over the fact that I reprinted what Engels wrote on homosexuality and the fact that the leader of this group said in late 1999 that there was no ‘immigration’ problem to Greece and there was no ‘open border policy of US-EU imperialism in place’. We arrived at Detroit international airport and waited and waited for them. They turned up to tell us that something had happened which they didn’t explain and after a day we left as we were provided with nowhere to sleep and left to fend for ourselves having to leave at 6am to get out of the city. On arriving at a McDonalds we were told to move away as we were the wrong colour and could end up dead before we could find a taxi.
9/11 Fake Terror and anti-Iranian venom
Over the course of a decade Walters has trumpeted vociferously the 9/11 put up job which launched the ‘war on terror’ and bankrupted the USA. He alleges that he has connections with a French group though no one ever has verified it and according to himself he is a loner. I would classify him as an American deadbeat who lives in a Potemkin village world of make believe. In the same period the same friend who helped set up the Marxist Internet Archive noticed that a whole host of anti-communist stuff was appearing and some of the editors on the threads were avowed and self-declared anti-Bolsheviks and this was noted in a circular sent out by me to many US organisations as they refused to upload translations done by myself either from English to Greek or from Greek to English from Greece’s revolutionary historical past. They kept on citing various problems when it came to Greek translations from computer malfunctions to html codes etc. They also refused to upload material on the Greek civil war written by Greeks so we were forced to produce a book on it...
At the same time he kept on stating our views are marginal in Greece (five or so ex-organisations that make up the collective Patriotic Left) that Greece is a sub-imperialist country and they can receive an unlimited number of illegal immigrants as the EU has deemed this necessary via the Dublin 2 agreement, that no one has published any study on Marxism and Immigration (D Dousias in 2009 who presided over the only scientific analysis of the Greek Roma and who has been included in my latest work on Immigration http://imfoccupationgreece.
Walters then goes on to berate a member of the Patriotic Left for being in Tehran when the main topic was 9/11 and how WW2 was used to justify the creation of the state of Israel. These views (bar the Anglo-American fake left) are widespread in France and Greece as an ex-central committee member of the French CP Garaudy wrote on the state of Israel a long time ago. Walters hides behind the collaborationist French govts past history to support left Zionism and label people ‘anti-semitic’ for they dare breach the topic of the US airbase in the Middle East. An old tired trick that no longer holds water but works well in US academia and the far left globalist circuits that label people either ‘conspiracy theorists’ ‘holocaust deniers’ ad nauseum. Having lost uncles in Hitler’s concentration camps it is a bit of a cheek to argue that I believe there were no concentration-extermination camps. Why don’t we just say what Walters really means. There was only one Holocaust, the jewish one and it trumps all others and anyone questioning the depth and severity of it must deny it existed for after all how can we collect money to prop up the Zionist entity if we haven’t got a story to sell?
Degeneration of the US ‘far left’...
In years of old before they became corrupted an American group wrote this
[O]n a sufficiently large scale, immigration flows could wipe out the national identity of recipient countries.... If, for example, therewere unlimited immigration into Northern Europe, the population influxfrom the Mediterranean basin would tend to dissolve the national identity of small countries like Holland and Belgium. More generally, unlimited immigration as a principle is incompatible with the right ofnational self-determination; to call for it is tantamount to advocating the abolition of national states under capitalism.”
Workers Vanguard's original article on the subject (January 18,
1974):
Now they send me articles castigating the ‘nationalism’ of the Greek labour movement in other words accept your lot don’t complain and don’t protest. Between an armed revolution and global revolution there are a multitude of ways the issue of illegal immigration could be wrested from the fake rightists.
Most of the American ‘far left’ groups degenerated in the 70’s into self appreciation societies which became infatuated with the individual self and adopted the policies of lifestyles ( paedophilia, gay, lesbian now trans) just like the Ottoman Empire did in 1864 before its ignominious collapse and it is an irony of history that then Anglo-French imperialism considered them ‘backward’ for legalizing homosexuality (before the Russian Revolution) and coined a phrase in French (shagging like a Greek!) and now British imperialism is on a mission via Camerons foreign office to ‘educate’ the backward members of the Commonwealth and actively promote homosexual lifestyles (majority of countries which have homosexuality banned on their statute books are from the ex-Commonwealth countries)
The arrival and perpetual legalization of immigrants in the USA (11million under Obama) became the second most adopted slogan from the ‘far left’ groups there. Anyone raising any objections was also labelled reactionary and backward as if the destruction of historic nations (which have a history far greater than the bastard offspring of British Imperialism) is a principle that anyone other than real fascists can espouse in this day and age whereby unelected central banksters and their political offshoots dictate who lives and who dies.
We had a decade of being told we live in Fortress Europe and then we realise this was just the propaganda trick used by the globalists for a ‘fortress’ which has the front gate open wide ain’t a fortress.
There were groups of ex-trotskyists (Vitsoris group) who during the course of the last direct imperialist occupation of Greece who claimed opposing the 3rd Reich was futile, Germany is unifying Europe, it is bringing the working class into closer unity forgetting that the abolition of nations is a decision nations should be allowed to take by themselves not imposed from above with the presence of army officers or from turning national tax offices into the vehicle of imposing bankster rules as they have done in Greece and have imposed in Cyprus (via the bailin).
Agios Panteleomonas 2008 Immigration Question goes National
When local residents started to complain and protest about the unchecked arrival and squatting of hundreds of illegal immigrants who used the square to live, sell drugs, go to the toilet harangue the local Greek girls and old women by relieving them of their gold jewellery (mostly a Christian cross) one should have said these Greeks are racist they aren’t open to the world despite since the 70’s having the 4th most tourists in the EU.
When predominantly women set up committees and egged on men to do something about the fact they couldn’t go about their daily business, men were forced into action. The corporate media that represents the interests of globalism started a vociferous campaign against the residents labelling them ‘racists. On the back of this campaign the ‘leftists’ who work in tandem with the corporate media started to march and march and march against the local residents. Riot police turned up and threw tear gas into the main church. The residents stood firm beyond all the odds. Walters labelled all these residents ...nazis.
Lets now look at Walters line on immigration, its due to the root causes of imperialisms decay, the collapse of societies due to war and population movements across borders. If I am not mistaken the war in Vietnam started in 1945 and lasted till 1975 a full thirty years. The civil war in Yugoslavia and the imperialist intervention lasted another decade in the 1990’s. The amount of Vietnamese or Serbs that arrived in Greece can be numbered in the palm of one hand. Now why is that? All immigration according to Walters is ‘progressive’ ‘anti-imperialist’ for we are dealing with ‘immigrant rights’ UN conventions and as Felicity Lawrence said ‘migration theory’. Iraqui and Afghani collaborators of Western imperialism never crossed the borders into Greece chased out by those resisting imperialism in their territories only victims of ...imperialism. Collaborators become an above class entity (migrants) and they gain supra-national rights. The labour movement of each country based within specific national borders have no rights to question anyone and anything. They have to be open in order to not be ‘xenophobic’.
So when we had underage girls being pimped by Nigerian drug dealers in central Athens 100m from Omonia square we have to put this down to ‘migration theory’ ie pimping has gone global and there is nothing to be done. Locals aren’t allowed to say anything as they weren’t allowed to say anything in the slums of South Africa when the same phenomena appeared. Long live the unity of international pimps and underage prostitution should be added as another one of Walters ‘transitional demands’ in the current era. When the Algerian resistance banned prostitution and alcohol and took out severe measures against those who flouted the rules, we should have argued they are oppressing the rights of ‘sex workers’ and they should be free to ply their trade with occupation troops, otherwise this shows the chauvinistic oppression by males of Algerian women?
When the corporate media journalists who are nothing more than hired whores of capitalism in decay arrive in any scene they dictate the terms of the news agenda not based on what happened and why but on what we need to say and gather facts accordingly. Paul Mason arrived in Patras interviewed a few people and declared there was a Golden Dawn riot against illegal immigrants from the offices of the BBC as always which has a monopoly of the truth (same BBC that announced half an hour before it collapsed the 3rd Tower during 9/11 and also the non-existent finding of weapons of mass destruction to justify the Iraqui invasion). Although given airtime and does circuits in Universities and book fairs as to how the working class has gone global to sell books for his much needed pension pot so he can retire in some idyllic setting.
The reality was a Greek woke up one night heard a whole bunch of noise, went out to tell some people to shut up, not knowing they were lumpen illegal hoodlums and they stabbed him to death. In the disused ex-fabric producing factory Piraiki Patraiki they went to hide. The next morning locals gathered to protest and find them. The police arrived on the scene to save them from a riot. The locals stole a road digger to attack one of the ex-factory walls. GD arrived on the scene in the form of party leaders and informed the road digger owner his road digger had been stolen trying to diffuse the situation. The police then used helicopters to ship out those inside the factory to the safety of Athens. So hundreds of residents involved in more than a few days battle with riot cops (many had to be shipped in from Athens) were labelled GD. Problem solved. Who is Paul Mason? Ex leftie leader of Workers Power. Totally impartial as always, being British helps when reporting on Greece...having a past as a colonial overlord. Mustn’t let tradition get in the way of a good revisionist story after all we have agendas to sell.
Walters then castigates another poster for uploading Marx’s comments on immigration rounding on him as if they were uploaded by me. This is the style of ‘debate’ hatchet job man who pretends he actually is listened to by anyone and rounds on them if they mention Marx on Immigration. Well here is a blogsite only with comments by Marx and Engels on Immigration. Read at your peril cos you wont find most on the MIA, they don’t do that sort of thing. They are respectable with Stalin and Rorty all over.
http://
Nuclear Power apologist...
After the ban by the now disbanded Permanent Revolution group Walters went round campaigning for nuclear power how progressive it is and how it will end ‘global warming’ in particular just as Fukushima occurred. Despite the facts against the topic eg Pripyat 25 years after Chernobyl is a city still evacuated of 50k citizens as the readings are 75k times higher than they were before the explosion. An American true to form everything that is rotten from the states he wants exported. He has found ‘safe’ nuclear power despite the fact that Pripyat is now burnt out for at least 600 years due to radioactivity, the same with Fukyshima and despite the protests in Japan that saw 200k citizens march outside the Presidential Palace, but hey lets ignore mass movements, we know better, nuclear power is safe...Walters said so and as an American one must take their hat off to him.
British ‘far left’ and Greece
Just like they did nothing for the struggle of independence for Kenya prior to that what is it they did regarding Britain’s involvement in fostering Greece’s civil war and supporting the collaborators of Hitler?
Answers on a postcard please. Prize a book of mine on the Greek civil war.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Greek-
The British ‘far left’ has always been in the overwhelming majority pro-imperialist alongside their American counterparts. Their support is always based on the ‘ethnics’ behaving themselves and following what the centre decides.
WRP-Gerry Healy had an organisation in Greece which destroyed the first post-dictatorial printshop after expelling the majority of the organisation in a typical healyite frame up and shutting down all the bookshops. Throughout this period Bob Archer was with Gerry Healy and not only that, when their honcho in Athens (another self-styled fake jew Savvas Michael) was parading in Tehran and Libya singing the praises in order to get money from there we were supposed to keep quiet when allegations regarding rape and financial fraud were aired in public for the first time. I made a special journey to the UK to interview their Gestetner trade union rep they had called Richard Goldstein and translated the interview and with a series of reports, posters and adverts in Pontiki exposed the WRP and called for a Commission of Inquiry (as to whether they had handed over pictures of Iraqui communists to Saddam and taken money from the oil-igarchs) but the successors to Healy weren’t interested only in trying to maintain Healyism without Healy. In the 90’s Archers alliances with Slaughter were based on an anti-Serb venom paralleled only by Blair (who obviously had guns). There is a saying in Greek ‘show me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are’ fits accordingly with Bob Archer and David Walters. A marriage made in heaven.
The Militant had followers in PASOK who were in PASOK. One wing ‘left’ in 1991 another about three years ago. What discerned them was their slavish acceptance of PASOK as being ‘social democratic’ instead of pure capitalist (liberal centre party of Greek capitalism) and their careerist appetites. When things started to rock they jumped ship in order to find new homes (latest declaring themselves the ‘communist wing in Syriza and supporting the Euro, EZ and EU!!) Those that joined PASOK or were allied to it did it for material gain, there wasn’t much politics and there hasn’t been much since. When hundreds of thousands hit the squares swearing at Parliament and the PASOK and ND MP’s how did they cdes of Militant in Greece feel? Their whole lifetime in politics was geared around being in PASOK. Insofar as they marched in the 70’s chanting ‘US bases Out’ ‘National Independence and Territorial Integrity’’ EC and NATO are the Same’ Greece Belongs to the Greeks’ they weren’t racist or nationalist, but John Reinman http://oaklandsocialist.com/ if he was a member then forgets the ‘sins’ of his youth and in old age seeks revenge to those who remind him of his past. Now if they weren’t the slogans being chanted confirm that with those who were there...
SWP Greece has been one of the most vociferous in gaining EU subsidies to promote ‘diversity and multiculturalism’ through their open border Soros networks (Athens Indymedia run on govt platforms from the Athens Polytechnic), language schools for foreigners, social forums etc and its no coincidence that when they were exposed way back in 2004 I was banned from even broaching the subject in their media. Half their organisation after the SWP UK touting it as being the biggest in Greece joined Sinaspismos to get an electoral subsidy and now in the leader of Davanelos they parade as being the ‘left opposition’ inside Syriza when they have been known to support every anti-Greek act by foreign US subsidised govts eg Skopje when they marched there holding up the flags of a foreign territory which has claims on Greece, over the issue of Macedonia. When hundreds of thousands of Greeks marched in the 90’s against the USA’s attempts at divide and rule they resurrected the hundreds of thousands who marched during the 3rd Reich (when it handed over a section of northern Greece to Bulgaria without fear for their lives and many were killed.)
They consistently campaigned against the citizens groups that sprung up in central Athens turning up with the riot cops to tear gas them and hurl abuse from 2008 onwards. GD turned up for the same reasons to pay lip service to the struggle of the residents in order to gather votes. Now because the SWP are the marketing agents for GD (they both call each other Bolsheviks and nazi respectively when they are nothing of the sort just two sides of the same globalist coin) they managed to help gain them votes from 0.29% to 10% in three years. A group which is so ridiculous allegedly against the Troika but for the EU and against Merkel but for her as they condemn the protests against her. Now the corporate global media jumped on the bandwagon of GD these votes hover around 15-20%. The system is creating its next fallback option in the form of Syriza or GD as players in any coalition that might be formed.
Left unchecked illegal immigration would be a ticking time bomb. Campaigning around the fake slogan of ‘migrant rights’ and calling for ‘unity’ among all and sundry may apply to imperialist centres which had colonies all over the world but does not apply to banana republics for the scale and volume of immigration surpasses the domestic labour force (Eleftherotypia-newspaper spoke in 2004 about the presence of 2.5m so has the Greek TUC research department INE-GSEE spoken about the presence of 40% foreign born workers in relation to the indigenous labour force). That is over a decade ago.
Campaigned pro-actively for a vote for PASOK in 1991...
Permanent Revolution ex-Workers Power (another now disbanded group and the irony here is Walters always intervenes on the scene whilst groups are on the verge of disbanding) had a blog site. I intervened initially on topics related to Greece as I did with a series of letters in Weekly Worker regarding Greece. PR forecasted perpetual boom (instead of ‘catastrophist theory’... as they labelled it) just as the EZ was going into depression and they asked for a meeting and a series of eyewitness reports from Greece. In the middle of one of them when we had a two day bombardment to destroy the occupation of the squares Walters appeared with his poison pen letters (not on the content of the material which was being uploaded by the way) to talk about ....gays and immigration. PR then blocked the second eye-witness report. PR who were an offshoot of Workers Power have known that I disagree with the Americanisation of politics in fields of sexual relations (its not the duty of labour parties to actively promote any sexual lifestyles) from the 80’s. But as British they are in bed with the Yanks and kowtow to their every whim. In that they follow the political class that rules Britain to the letter. They are American poodles.
‘Weekly Worker’ or otherwise known as Globalist Weekly
When a book came out ‘How the IMF Broke Greece’ edited by me with contributions from others and was reviewed by an ex-British miner Dave Douglass, Walters appeared on the scene (without having read it to attack it!) and to say ‘illegal immigration’ is good for Greece as it has been good for... America. The irony now of the situation is that illegal immigration left unchecked has led to riots in many parts of Greece. We are now being told to condemn Greeks for rioting when Greeks are being killed by the local corporate media, the foreign corporate media (Paul Mason-Newsnight Channel 4 John Snow) in other words to accept their lot as no one can go against the 4th Reich (much like the ex-cdes of the Vitsoris group) for the arrival of millions in the territory of Greece is a natural phenomena (‘migration theory,’ ‘human rights ‘ in the past it was just known as Lebensraum). Funny how Cuba closes its borders to ‘gusanos’ but Greece cant. So why does Greece have a navy, an army and a rail service? To ship them in by the kilo dump them without any means of support in a concrete mega city and then expect them to live like hippies (ie to molest no one, to commit no crimes to live idyllically by eating air and handing out flowers to each passer by in particular old ladies not living like animals in squares and using them as latrines in 40c heat) as if they are in Matala in Crete in the 70’s.
Or let’s put it another way. 15 million or so tourists visit Greece a year. Why not turn the tourist industry into just a reception centre of illegal immigration so no UN conventions on ‘human rights’ are breached. Ensure each new arrival is housed and fed to the standard of tourists in hotels and turn Greeks into waiters for this service so they can get some hotel work back as they have been made redundant from that as well. After all an ‘open border’ policy espoused by Greeks who were trained under Lyndon Larouche and happen to be the family that had the central bankster bros under Simitis who brought us into the Euro (and now pretend they are the rrrevolutionaries of Antarsya) are the direct connection between the British ‘far left’ and Greece.
But the fake left wont touch the topic as they don’t want to go against the status quo. They are globalisations last vital bulwark. Hence when they look at Syriza they see ‘success’ and want to repeat it abroad as if the conditions are the same everywhere and the success of Syriza whatever that means in practice, is anything to look up to other than with they eyes of parliamentary cretins, just as the Greek parliament has ceased to exist.
There is no nationalism as yet of Greek labour. It has been decimated, de-industrialised and replaced by globalized labour which has no interest for Greece or the Greek nation. They are all there for their own individual ends not the collective ends of society as they can just up sticks and leave at any moment in time and aren’t interested in society or social issues as issues. Hence one notices the total absence of immigrants from the globalist left and if they are there they are there for show like a flower on vase by the window.
But that isn’t the issue with Walters. Walters does not seek debate just the closure of it by creating labels, latest one being I am David Irving when he openly supports the ethnic cleansing of Greeks. Well what label aspires to him? The only good American is a dead one? After all he is on record to not support the military conflicts arrayed against the USA from Afghanistan to Iraq... wants the mess that is the USA exported everywhere and assumes we have to fall for it.
The other irony is that all the parties of the official fake Left KKE-Syriza ask for illegals to leave Greece ie by overturning the Dublin 2 agreement and being given travel papers to go to northern Europe to alleviate Greece’s problems. In other words they want Greece to be an open border arrival point, then processing and then movement up the chain. You don’t hear Walters criticise them for being anti-immigration now do you? That is what Syriza and the KKE openly argue. Lets look at Lenin:
"What does 'Down with frontiers' mean? It is the beginning of anarchy.... Only when the socialist revolution has become a reality, and not a method, will the slogan 'Down with frontiers' be a correct slogan."
Lenin April 1917 on the National Question
http://
I remain committed to the ideals of Greece belongs to the Greeks, US Bases Out, Greece must Exit the EU etc even if Syrizas new found friends in the bankruptcy of the Anglo-American ‘far left’ have adopted the Brookings Institute, the London School of Economics and the world banks as their mantra and the evidence of it is that all talk of ‘socialism’ is in reality just talk about lifestyles (race or sex never about class). Hence there never was any ‘debate’ on the WIN site, just a concerted and united effort by Americans and their British toadies to state openly Greece should cease to exist. One does not debate neo-fascists, one exposes them openly for what they are, pure globalists whether of the ‘open’ or closed variety.
On neo-fascism...
I’ll leave the last words to Lafazanis the leader of the Left Faction in Syriza with 30% of the votes at their founding conference:
“you want a procedure with Presidential decrees in order to avoid the control of Parliament – a control which is to be avoided only by non-democratic regimes. The two bourgeois parties have engineered a disgusting and to be condemned coup, blatantly, by using Parliament as a decoration”
2nd August 2013
Which leaves one with the obvious question if the Greek Parliament no longer votes on anything why does the Left still participate in it?
Answers again on a postcard please.
Much like the other question. Walters alleges he has the same line as me on the nation state and he was criticised by Gerry (hands off the US ambassador in Libya!) Downing that he is a rabid nationalist and that a national question arises if the volume of immigration is such to question the identity of nations, but that this law is overturned if you are an imperialist country or sub-imperialist overturning Trotskys observations in 1940 that a national question may also emerge in imperialist countries if overrun by Hitler, he argues for the closure of borders in non-imperialist countries. So how come that doesn’t make him a xenophobe, nationalist as Gerry alleges? So South Africa must have arrived at an imperialist level of development as well?
EU-USA=One World Govt
“The totalitarian state, subjecting all aspects of economic, political, and cultural life to finance capital, is the instrument for creating a supernationalist state, an imperialist empire, the rule over continents, the rule over the whole world.”
Nationalism and Economic Life
-Leon Trotsky 1933
The centralising tendencies of global imperialism implies they no longer seek to have nation states with any role whatsoever. They are creating an imperialist unification based not on army invasions like Hitler (that happened with the defeat of Germany and Japan in WW2) but on NATO, WTO, central banks, IMF, common currencies leading to world currencies. By destroying nations or creating mini-USA’s everywhere imperialism wants to create the old ‘divide and rule’ philosophy to control and contain all labour movements like what the British Empire did in Africa when it shipped Indians over and blocked the Blacks from working on the railways so they could not disrupt the Empire.
Socialist Discussion Site…
I was on the site for one month prior to withdrawing. The eyewitness report from the ERT occupation affected the Syriza lackeys... on the site. Let’s have a look at some of their comments:
Greeks are ‘primitive xenophobes’ Dan
‘Apodidictic manner’ Bob Archer
After explaining to me that Greece benefitted from the EU and EZ and the EU I am told...despite contrary information provided from a KKE source:
‘I would be grateful if vngelis would take part in the discussion in a less strident manner.’
Dan
The sarcasm in vngelis' postings is unpleasant and uncomradely. S/He is constantly trying to associate those who disagree with him as fake lefts, supporters of quislings or appeasers of fascism. This is not an appropriate style for this discussion
Dan
Being labeled a terrorist here….
Both sought to "expose" the true character of the "neofascist" state by provoking it into battles with the revolutionary brigades; both resorted to acts of individual terror, assassination and bomb throwing in an attempt to short circuit the process of winning the majority of the class. These were the Italian Red Brigades and the German Red Army Fraction.
Dan
Sorry Comrade Gelis, I strongly disagree with your views. If Greece is swallowed up by workers from across the world I will not mourn but as joe hill put it: organize
Stu
From a primitive xenophobe to whether I am …Greek
I guess the question to Comrade Gelis and to all of us are you Greek (or wherever you are from) first or a communist revolutionary first? If the former than Comrade Gelis' comments fit and present a radical nationalist view. If the latter then we are internationalists and the borders drawn and maintained by the oppressors mean nothing to us.
Stu
In some ways, there is a similar issue here in California, and we see it very concretely here in Oakland, where I live. My own neighborhood, for instance, used to be 90% people born in this country; now it is a mixture of Asians, Latin Americans, one block which is primarily Iraqis, etc. (My own personal attitude is that this polyglot really makes things interesting.) Yes, there is competition for jobs. Also, I understand that some of the immigrants receive certain government services that native born people who are in equal need don't, and this does create some resentment. My attitude is that everybody should get these services.
If it is really true that Greece's economy is really, actually being strained by the numbers of immigrants, then I think the movement should demand that the EU help provide for them. But what I feel most strongly is this: How can any movement that is fighting for a better society take the attitude towards immigrants of "You can drown in the sea. You can go back home and be bombed to death. You can go back home and starve." No working class movement can take that attitude and move forward. It is inevitable that if it does, it will turn to nationalism and some sort of racism and/or sexism as well as homophobia, etc.
John Reinmann
My son has worked on building sites in Greece where the lingua franca of the site was English because of the range of nationalities working there. The description of the working conditions was like something from a century ago. He is also scathing of the commonplace racism he experienced there.
Felicity Dowling
Walters other American friend a lawyer who did a stint with Healys outfit (under Wohlforth) in the USA prior to the Greenstein mob that took over and now prints the Financial Times for the USA has ditched the Trade Unions and on the WSWS website goes round attacking the nationalism of everybody but not the American transnational corporations that rule the world… for which Walters has defended vociferously.
A CAPITALIST WORLD GOVERNMENT IS A UTOPIAN ILLUSION, BUT IF IT WERE IN THE OFFING, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE SOMETHING TO BE WISHED FOR THAN SOMETHING TO BE FEARED. YES, I VALUE THE ELIMINATION OF WAR MUCH MORE THAN THE PRESERVATION OF GREEK NATIONAL CULTURE. YOUR VALUES ARE FUNDAMENTALLY WARPED--IT GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN A MERE POLITICAL DIFFERENCE.
SRD
Conclusion
Even in the ex-stalinist states when the USSR was starting to collapse the old national antagonisms resurfaced. National culture, national traditions etc re-emerged. How could that be when it was already buried as we had the creation of ‘soviet man’?
To now have Americans and Brits arguing that the destruction of nation states (under whatever guise they come up with or whatever tinpot theory they concoct) is something progressive without the nation states volunteering to commit national hara-kiri or even allowed a vote on it indicates how fast they have degenerated into a new world order of globalism. Anyone voicing these views (erasure of nations) should be automatically excluded, but what we see is that like 60’s samizdat in the old USSR we now have a similar thing developing in the West where any views deemed ‘nationalist’ are banned from the ‘open’ ‘alternative’ ‘anti-capitalist’ ‘socialist’ media outlets which are the twin side of the corporate media.
PS
Under any rules of democracy (not of course Anglo-American) one would be allowed the right of reply prior to being ‘suspended’ or the same rules would apply to the person who made the allegations. But of course under globalist rules all norms of basic democracy no longer apply. This indicates the neo-fascist nature of ‘debates’. One has to first fit into a schema before being able to respond and once labeled for not answering in the pre-conceived schema one is labeled accordingly: ‘anti-semitic’ ‘racist’ ‘homophobic’ not necessarily in that order. But we don’t precisely live in a democracy any more but an Orwellian new world order…As I have also other things to do than waste my time answering American provocateurs I send my reply to the allegations but do not confirm I am willing to respond or have time to do so…
VN Gelis
August 2013
